What are you DRINKNG right now?

[MourningStar]

...insipid...

in·sip·id
inˈsipid/Submit
adjective
lacking flavor.
"mugs of insipid coffee"
synonyms: tasteless, flavorless, bland, weak, wishy-washy; More
lacking vigor or interest.
"many artists continued to churn out insipid, shallow works"


And now I know a new word.... R'Amen!

[Roving Punster]

Magner's Pear Cider (Irish). One of my favorite mass produced ciders ... I like this one because it's on the drier side of the semi-sweet range, compared to a lot of competitors, and I lean towards pear over apple.

Kendermann's Riesling.

Damn fine wine with a curry.

Followed by Jacob's Creek Shiraz.

Goes very well with itself. I intend to find out.

Considering you fancy riesling, and judging by your penchant for an Australian shiraz, you might consider trying some Australian riesling also. The best shiraz growing areas in Australia, noteably central-west Victoria, the Barossa Valley in South Australia and the ACT (Canberra) also double as the preferred growing regions for Australia's finest riesling. There are myriads of excellent shiraz and riesling labels produced from these three locations. I can recommend a fine aromatic Pewsey Vale Riesling (Clare Valley) or Bests Shiraz from Great Western (central west Victoria). It is interesting that some of the oldest and also genetically diverse shiraz is located in Great Western, Victoria - one of few areas on the planet that missed the global phylloxera outbreak of the late 19th Century which devastated most European vineyards. For example, if you ever find a St Ethels Shiraz produced by Grampians Estate (Great Western), buy it. Otherwise, quaff down any southern states riesling and enjoy.

Woo hoo ... always a pleasure to meet a fellow wine geek.

Color me a former winemaker (amateur), along with mead, cider, ale and lager.

Anyone's got any wine questions, rattle my cage and I'll do my best to help.

p.s. Yes, aromatic whites, both dry and semi dry, still and sparkling, go great with many malay curries, almost regardless of region.

p.p.s. Did you guys know that Shiraz and Syrah are essentially the same grape, and differ primarly by growing region (re: Australia vs South France) ? I always found it fascinating how different climates bring out different qualities in grapes ... and the aussie growers somehow bring out these fat berry profiles in the same way that big fruity california zins differ from zinfandels elsewhere in the world.

[MourningStar]

I really only enjoy whites... Rieslings especially. But I am a complete and utter wine n00b. What are some of the differences between the whites, in YOUR opinions. And what are the pro's con's of Dryness ( I would think dry is good?bad? I don't know ) I could read all about oaky, bitter, sun-kissed notes of Panamanian wax free PH balanced exxo-grapes from some actual snob on a wine blog, but I want the nitty gritty facts a beer drinker would understand. I'm gettin' up in my years (31) and showing up to a nice dinner you've been invited to with a 12 pack of beer just doesn't say.... "classy"

[ChowMein]

...insipid...

in·sip·id
inˈsipid/Submit
adjective
lacking flavor.
"mugs of insipid coffee"
synonyms: tasteless, flavorless, bland, weak, wishy-washy; More
lacking vigor or interest.
"many artists continued to churn out insipid, shallow works"


And now I know a new word.... R'Amen!

Many more new words in PKs " lexicon " thread

[Roving Punster]

What are some of the differences between the whites, in YOUR opinions. And what are the pro's con's of Dryness ( I would think dry is good?bad? I don't know ) I could read all about oaky, bitter, sun-kissed notes of Panamanian wax free PH balanced exxo-grapes from some actual snob on a wine blog, but I want the nitty gritty facts a beer drinker would understand. I'm gettin' up in my years (31) and showing up to a nice dinner you've been invited to with a 12 pack of beer just doesn't say.... "classy":lol:

The primary differences between varieties of white wines, in descending order, by taste, are roughly as follows:
> Carbonation: Still or Sparkling
> Sweetness: The spectrum runs from intensely sweet at one end (ex: ice wine, PX sherry, etc.), to bone dry (fino sherry).

Once those two biggies are out of the way, things get a lot more delicate and interesting
> Grape Variety: Now is where things get really interesting, because every variety of grapes has their own unique signature of flavors.
> Growing Region: Different regions bring out different characteristics of grapes due to soil, growing season, etc ... hence the huge differences in taste between a sauvignon blance grown in the Sancerre region of France (delicate, austere & minerally), and say Malborough NZ (lime zest, gooseberry, kiwi, herbaceous).
> Finish: The spectrum runs from heavily wooded in new barrels, or perhaps rested in barrels that held something else (like sherry), to lightly wooded, to fermented in stainless steel at the other (read: no wood).
> Vineyard/House Style: Different vineyards have differing styles depending on many factors, such technique (did they break down the malic acid ? how do they prefer to finish the acid levels ? what yeast strain(s) do they use, do they filter or not ? Is the winemaker an untrained and/or overpaid amateur hack who needs to move on to another career or not ? etc.)

There's a lot more to it than that, but that's a minimal overview.

[MourningStar]

So I should probably buy from a place that has a little description next to the selections, or if they have a synopsis on the bottle itself. That way I can see where and what and how the grapes are grown and such. Also, probably online research, and then search out the bottle.

There is way more to wine than beer I guess... lol. I know a lot of microbrewers just threw a shit fit, but oh well. lol.

[Roving Punster]

The best way to learn wine is to learn what the different grape varieties taste like, and then the regional variations ... that way you can pretty much have an idea what a wine will taste like just by knowing the grape & region. From there, your guess is refined by noting the alcohol, residual sweetness (if any), whether or not it's seen wood, the region of origin, and the price range. All those things remove a lot of the guesswork, and make shopping for wine a lot less intimidating and more economical. It's very liberating not being a slave to overpriced/overpatronized labels. :-)

[Almighty Doer of Stuff]

They need water
Good, good water
We need water
And I'm sure there ain't one of us here
Who'd say, "no" to somebody's daughter

[Monobaz]

I really only enjoy whites... Rieslings especially. But I am a complete and utter wine n00b. What are some of the differences between the whites, in YOUR opinions. And what are the pro's con's of Dryness ( I would think dry is good?bad? I don't know ) I could read all about oaky, bitter, sun-kissed notes of Panamanian wax free PH balanced exxo-grapes from some actual snob on a wine blog, but I want the nitty gritty facts a beer drinker would understand. I'm gettin' up in my years (31) and showing up to a nice dinner you've been invited to with a 12 pack of beer just doesn't say.... "classy"

Roving Punster pretty much nailed the wine selection criteria from the point of view of a wine maker (sweet-dry spectrum, finish, etc). Such parameters are essentially a matter of taste. For example, do you prefer sweet or dry wines? Personally I find oaked wines overbearing and in some instances I believe oaking is little more than a “trick of the trade” used to disguise faults. I agree whole-heartedly with your assessment of the rampant hob-snobbery associated with the wine industry – some wine reviews appear to be little more than a marketing ploy designed to make the purchaser feel ill at ease and uncertain – albeit written by some twat who wouldn’t know the difference between shale and calcarenite. (That comment applies equally to much of the nonsense posted on wine labels.) One reasonable rule of thumb is to base your selection on geography. Good wines are grown in relatively cool or temperate regions while lower quality wines are produced from grapes grown in warmer climates. I would buy a Tasmanian shiraz without thinking much about it but would baulk at one produced in Queensland. A second consideration in selecting a good wine might be to limit your choice (at least initially) to only a few wine grape varieties. The big four are the so-called Noble Grapes: Cabernet Sauvignon, Pinot Noir, Shiraz and Riesling (three reds and one white). Historically the European Royal Households perceived these 4 cultivars to be of superior quality relative to other available varieties. Who am I to argue? Furthermore, wines made from the Noble Grape varieties all keep well in the bottle, especially now that corks are a thing of the past. Riesling is the only white variety with this worthy characteristic – all other white wines are meant to be consumed before the following vintage. Take care with European wines which generally are blendes and not necessarily labelled according to cultivar. Nominating cultivar is now New World standard practice, the principal benefit being the consumer is informed of precisely what is in the bottle.

There certainly is nothing wrong with a preference for white wine and riesling in particular. Try any number of the rieslings from your cooler wine grape growing regions and decide yourself the finish you prefer. And if that fails, go for a cold 6-pack and have one for me.

[Roving Punster]

Swimmingly well said on all counts, albeit with 1 tiny quibble:

Riesling is the only white variety with this worthy characteristic – all other white wines are meant to be consumed before the following vintage.

As with all rules and generalizations, there are always exceptions ... including in this instance the world's longest reigning most consistently expensive wine: Château d'Yquem (Sauternes region, France) which is made primarily from Sémillon (for it's elegant backbone), with some Sauvignon blanc (for extra aroma, edginess and acidity to balance the sweetness generated by the botrytis). It was one of the wines I studied when I taught myself meadmaking back in the 1990's.

In any case, although Riesling is definitely one of the most consistently forgiving white grapes to work with (requiring only attention paid to striking a decent balance between the acidity present and residual sweetness), the implied historical bias against other varieties of white is no longer as true as it used to be. It bears mentioning that in olden times, whites were nearly always finished sweet, so favor was given to varieties that had the acidity and tannin to balance that sweetness (and thereby provide both flavor balance and extended shelf life) ... hence Riesling's early ascendancy in less technologically sophisticated times.

The bottom line is that there are a lot of exquisitely good non-vinifera whites to be enjoyed out there, and modern winemaking techniques have helped mitigate many of their erstwhile quirks, and exemplified instead their best qualities ... and modern economics and rapid word of mouth help ensure that less successful examples don't stick around long enough to be relevant.

[Roving Punster]

BTW, I agree with your bias against overuse of Oak, which I've always found to be one of the signature mistakes of winemakers lacking solid high quality professional training. When buying Chardonnay for example, I always lean heavily towards steel vat varieties, which are not only less expensive, but because I like the bright clean green apple notes ... barreled versions have invariably been kept in the barrel too long (read: for the entire winter, rather than for how long the wine actually needs it for proper flavor balance), and malolactic reduction (which transmutes malic to lactic acid, and thereby changes the flavor from appley to buttery) leaves the wine too flabby (underacidic) for me.

At best, modern whites need only the briefest kiss of wood (a few weeks, not months) ... not a long hibernation in wood until the new crop forces them into bottle.

[Monobaz]

I was wondering Roving Punster if you ever made sparkling wines. I once came across a riesling that continued to ferment in the bottle - it didn't win any awards for its good looks but it sure tasted mighty fine. I guess that is similar to how Prosecco came about too. Like Yahoo Serious, some of us consider a good drop must have bubbles in it. Do you think it would be difficult to emulate the "failed" sparkling riesling?

[Nef Yoo BlackBeard]

ummm....

ye ken poot fizzy stuf inna wotterrr annit tayst reel gude , rrrrr .

[Roving Punster]

I was wondering Roving Punster if you ever made sparkling wines. I once came across a riesling that continued to ferment in the bottle - it didn't win any awards for its good looks but it sure tasted mighty fine. I guess that is similar to how Prosecco came about too. Like Yahoo Serious, some of us consider a good drop must have bubbles in it. Do you think it would be difficult to emulate the "failed" sparkling riesling?

I've made plenty of naturally carbonated ale, but wine is a different beast when it comes to natural carbonation, because unlike beer all of the sugars present are fermentable and the yeast will naturally want to go to it's attenuation limit (read: they'll eat sugar until they run out of food or the alcohol levels exceed their tolerance, or your takes steps to intervene, whichever comes first). Attenuation limits are also not 100% reliable, so controlling residual sweetness is not as simple as just picking a yeast strain that will leave the desired amount of residual sweetness for a given starting point of sugar. The net result is that naturally carbonating wines is easy provided you dont mind them going bone dry, but if you want to retain some residual sweetness you either have to guess where the yeast will stop (and risk exploding bottles if you overshoot), or use method champonois and dosage (which is a royal PITA for most homebrewers), or simply ferment it dry and dosage it and then give it a stabilizer (or sterile filter it) and then FORCE CARBONATE it.

The bottom line is that naturally carbonating homemade beer is easy, but doing the same with a non-dry wine requires time skill technique and risk of breakage, which is why most experienced homebrewers force carbonate their sparkling wines. For anyone who's ever ever attempted homemade ginger beer this lesson is ingrained in both mind and one's walls and carpet.

FOOTNOTE: back in the early days, before indoor temperature controls much less glycol jackets existed, fermentation tended to slow down and stop during the winter, sometimes before dryness, and if you bottle before the weather warmed enough for activity to possibly resume, the result is exploding bottles ... or a gentle fruisse, if the activity is mild. I assume that's what you're referring to by a naturally failed sparkler ?

[Roving Punster]

Professional winemakers have LOTS more tools than homebrewers when it comes to winemaking, because you can do things like precisely stop a fermentation exactly where/when you want to with things like thermal shocking, sterile filtration, centrifugal yeast removal, yadda yadda. Homebrewers cant do that nearly as easily.