Official Ministry?

The place for general discussion about the Flying Spaghetti Monster and most things related to Him.

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KC Observer
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Postby KC Observer » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:19 pm

MT - while I admire your service to this great country of ours, even in the midst of a divisive, fraudulent war, I have to take some issue with your statement:

How do you explain those Religious scientist who gave us so much if they were mentally ill?


The Catholic Church (for one), historically, has been a hinderance to the advancement scientific knowledge and reserch. Remember Galileo's and Copernicus' persecution by the Church? That's just a couple of the more famous, or infamous examples. Additionally, this whole "ID " movement is a tremendous move backwards and a slap in the face to scientists who have expanded our knowledge of how species evolve, adapt and change to meet the ever changing conditions of the envireonment around them.
The Pope

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kirayon
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Postby kirayon » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:36 pm

While I do not believe religion is a result of a mental disorder having a mental disorder would not mean that your are completely unable to function. Many disorders of the mind lead the brain to counteract them by strengthening the part that is unaffected by the disorder. Many of the geniuses of the past and even today have suffered through delusions and disorders. Think of Vincent Van Gogh, who suffered from recurring psychosis, both Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton, who developed Asperger Syndrome in early childhood, even to modern day with Steven Hawking and his amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. Many times when a person develop a disorder their mind end up in part benefiting from the experience, and while they may not seem normal on the outside and their actions may look random and crude as a hopeful special education teacher I have seen how intelligent these people can be.

I have been taking many religious classes to attempt to supliment my knowledge of something that I never got a chance to grow up with, but I still do not understand why some people are so fanatical about it. While it may seem crazy to me I would not consider it a mental disorder, but a different set of beliefs and motivations which are very different from my own.

After all isn't us telling them that they have a mental disorder and that they need to stop believing in god like them telling us that we are going to hell and that we must repent our sins? I for one do not want to stoop down to that level and do not wish to force my beliefs onto others but simply give my point of view to those who will listen. As I have said before I am a pastaferian for several reasons, and one of them is simply because it is much funner to say " ARG! I be a follower of the mighty noodley god!" than to say I am an atheist.
HAHA.....words.

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Postby Chiquito » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:36 pm

I, for one, personally, ignore me if you like, think the human brain is hardwired into needing a community, a fellowship if you like. I have tried to find this in various groups and churches but my instincts reject their dogma. Having a 'church' where all members openly admitted the preachings were bullshit would be ideal for me.

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Postby kirayon » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:54 pm

Chiquito, you are right in saying that the human mind seeks a community. It is an evolutionary trait that has helped humans survive by forming large communities, like many other primates, for defense and support. If humans were loners by nature a great society would most likely have not arisen. What kind of advances would we have if we were not willing to cooperate and share ideas?
HAHA.....words.

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Postby EarthRise » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:03 pm

KC Observer wrote:MT - while I admire your service to this great country of ours, even in the midst of a divisive, fraudulent war, I have to take some issue with your statement:

How do you explain those Religious scientist who gave us so much if they were mentally ill?


The Catholic Church (for one), historically, has been a hinderance to the advancement scientific knowledge and reserch. Remember Galileo's and Copernicus' persecution by the Church? That's just a couple of the more famous, or infamous examples. Additionally, this whole "ID " movement is a tremendous move backwards and a slap in the face to scientists who have expanded our knowledge of how species evolve, adapt and change to meet the ever changing conditions of the envireonment around them.


I think he was speaking on religion on the whole. True, the RCC has had its involvement with brutal dishonesty, and Intelligent Design is the latest popular train upon which fundamentalist see fit to hop.

But do also consider that religion has been present in the larger percentage of the population for most (all?) of written history. If this population were considered mentally ill in such a way that it damages scientific progression, the population in general (I think) would not have invented and grown to its current capacity. I don't think MPT was pointing out that religion was completely necessary to population evolution, but, rather, that religion has not been a significant hindrance in a majority of scientific progress.

(Side note: kirayon, I think the APA and WHO consider mental illnesses as inherently damaging to the individual, severely reducing the ability to function.)
[...] the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, should not be considered as subversive of the theory.
-Darwin

MPTrooper

Postby MPTrooper » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:41 pm

EarthRise wrote:
KC Observer wrote:MT - while I admire your service to this great country of ours, even in the midst of a divisive, fraudulent war, I have to take some issue with your statement:

How do you explain those Religious scientist who gave us so much if they were mentally ill?


The Catholic Church (for one), historically, has been a hinderance to the advancement scientific knowledge and reserch. Remember Galileo's and Copernicus' persecution by the Church? That's just a couple of the more famous, or infamous examples. Additionally, this whole "ID " movement is a tremendous move backwards and a slap in the face to scientists who have expanded our knowledge of how species evolve, adapt and change to meet the ever changing conditions of the envireonment around them.


I think he was speaking on religion on the whole. True, the RCC has had its involvement with brutal dishonesty, and Intelligent Design is the latest popular train upon which fundamentalist see fit to hop.

But do also consider that religion has been present in the larger percentage of the population for most (all?) of written history. If this population were considered mentally ill in such a way that it damages scientific progression, the population in general (I think) would not have invented and grown to its current capacity. I don't think MPT was pointing out that religion was completely necessary to population evolution, but, rather, that religion has not been a significant hindrance in a majority of scientific progress.

(Side note: kirayon, I think the APA and WHO consider mental illnesses as inherently damaging to the individual, severely reducing the ability to function.)


Yuppers. I was pointing to Theist's as a whole, not just the RCC.

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CotTT
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Postby CotTT » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:40 pm

EarthRise wrote:
This is a misled assumption. Tests with small children suggest that, regardless of religious teachings from family and friends, these children grow with a sort of ingrained theism.


There is a theory out that goes something like: "the act of observing or testing an object, changes the object and thereby affects the outcome"

Not an exact quote, sorry I can't remember exactly where I read/heard that.

But my point is: How can we ever know that if we were to take a child and isolate it completely that it would or would not develop theistic traits??

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Megesdal
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Postby Megesdal » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:50 am

EazyMoney wrote:I just received my ordination from the Universal Life Church. You can follow any religion you choose.. and its legal.. I can now legally marry someone in my state as long as I register with the county. The ordination is free, but its 4.99 for the "official" certificate.

So I guess you could be come an ordained minister of pastafariansim if you want.

heres the link... anyone can do it..

http://www.themonastery.org/



I just got ordained too
There was even a field to put a religion of choice, so it'll be fun to give marriages in the pastafarian way...even though there really isnt one...
Plus, i like the title of "reverend", it has a nice ring to it. Now I can legally say i am one, instead of just claiming emptily.
:fsm:
May the FSM bless you and keep you.
May the FSM make his noodliness to shine upon you and bring you peace.
RAmen.

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FSM Seminary

Postby dairyhamster » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:33 pm

Shit, no official ministry and here I am in seminary? Can I be the Grand Pastafarian Beer Poobah of the East Coast? GPBPEC?

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Postby Almighty Doer of Stuff » Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:59 pm

EarthRise wrote:We as Pastafarians are not to believe in the FSM. That's the whole point. And that's why we don't count as a valid religion like any other supernatural belief system.


Yarr, where in The Gospel does it say that we're not supposed to believe in His Noodliness? I don't remember that. I remember it says that we shouldn't force our beliefs on others, build expensive shrines in His Noodly name, or otherwise act like jerks, but I don't remember it saying we "are not to believe in the FSM".

I, personally, am honestly a Utilitarian-Humanist/theologically-liberal Pastafarian, so since it has people, outnumbered though they may be, who actually adhere to the faith, I'd say yes, it's a real religion. By "theologically-liberal" I mean I'm not closed-mindedly dogmatic about everything. There are theological conservatives and theological liberals in most other faiths, and I apply that to Pastafarianism as well. I put practicality before dogma, but I insert the Flying Spaghetti Monster, pesto be upon Him, into places where we don't have practical alternatives, until such time that a practical alternative presents itself, at which point I'll go with practicality. Sometimes I even pray to His Noodliness (even when I'm by myself, not just to publicly make points), although I don't actually expect it to do anything like someone more theologically conservative might. Hey, according to apparently practical logic, it's no more likely to help or hurt than praying to another deity or not praying at all, so why not?

Why am I a Pastafarian? The religion really is just as valid as any other. One of the things I like about Pastafarianism is that it has doubt built in, as has been mentioned: The Gospel specifically states that some of what it says involves bending the truth and even outright lying to test the reader's faith, so it's easy to mold the religion to suit your preferences, a tenet that most other religions are woefully lacking. Furthermore, it's probably the most concise! Score!

As for Utilitarian-Humanist, each of those by themselves are kind of connotationy words for many people, so I put them together. I do this because I find that true utilitarianism must take emotion and irrational behavior into account, as humanism does, and that doing what's best for humans inherently involves looking out not just for humans themselves but for nature as well (where "nature" is loosely defined as things outside strict human-societal-perspectival terms, such as plants, animals, gravitational balance of the solar system, etc.), as utilitarianism does.

May you all be touched by His Noodly Appendage, even if it's not in a way that causes you to recognize it as such. Ramen!

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Solutions Maximus
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Postby Solutions Maximus » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:53 am

Oh, it is very much a religion. It teaches tolerance, free life-style, factual education, and humor. It has a following. It has a founder. It has a deity. It has a canon. It has a history. What else does a religion have that Pastafarianism doesn't have?
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Postby MPTrooper » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:43 am

Solutions Maximus wrote:Oh, it is very much a religion. It teaches tolerance, free life-style, factual education, and humor. It has a following. It has a founder. It has a deity. It has a canon. It has a history. What else does a religion have that Pastafarianism doesn't have?


A real God.

Sorry, couldn't help it.

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Postby Almighty Doer of Stuff » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:20 am

I guess Catholicism isn't a religion then! :D

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Postby MPTrooper » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:47 am

That would mean I believe in a non-existent God. I know that's not true. Therefore your statement is false. I win

::does truffle shuffle::

/end thread

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Postby Zankou 2.0 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:49 am

MPTrooper wrote:That would mean I believe in a non-existent God. I know that's not true. Therefore your statement is false. I win

::does truffle shuffle::

/end thread


No, you don't know if it is true or not. That's the definition of faith, remember?


::does the robot::


/kick ass
--Zankou II

The thin line between genius and insanity is less of a border than a union.

"Science can purify religion from error and superstition; religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes. Each can draw the other into a wider world, a world in which both can flourish."
--Pope John Paul II


Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
-Albert Einstein


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